Dangerous seeds

FCSpringer

FCSpringer

Moderator
Hey Guy's and well galls too maybe, Have you been aware of the seeds that kill, Fox tail,Canada wild rye, virgina rye and others? We in the spaniel field trials have been encountering this problem allot. Some planters use some of these seeds in the mixes for CRP, CREP, ect. for cover crops and it will kill your dog sure as I am sitting in front of this Computer. They burro in or get in an eye, nose, mouth or digested. Ounce in the Awns or barbs on the seed only allow it to travel forward like a porkupine qwill. Leaving a trail of infection. The seed will travel through your dog, and will puncture lungs or other vital organs, it depends on the direction it is faceing. It is becoming widespread and most vets are not aware with the problem, A antibiotic called antirobic can sometimes be helpfull, but that has been the only one that we know of. I know of several cases and one even swollowed the seed, It traveled. I know of the seeds going up Male dogs urinary tracts as well, "Oooo" made you squint ha. You can if you are planning a planting have them leave it out of your seed Mix. The ESSFTA is doing allot of recearch on this to present proof to the GOV. I am aware of what to look for now and just go to the next spot when I see it hunting. There are some pics and info On the meanseeds.com site
 
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Thanks for the info

Had a Shorthair that I lost in Sept. with the same symptoms and my Vet had no clue! Just wondering if it could have been this? Too late now but will call my vet today and send info! Thanks again so much, maybe We will have closure with my loss!
 
Just had two friends that had to have surgery on there dogs and seeds were removed from both dogs, samples are being sent to the U for verification. One surgery to remove one did not heal so they put a die in the wound and xrayed it and found the path of travel and went in a second time and got another one. The seeds look like Canada rye to me. Bad stuff I'm tellen ya.
 
Pheasants Forever supporters

Well I see a ton of Pheasant's forever supporters here, So I will bring up the dangerous seed topic again. I support this group as well as any local USDA group building habitat, but I have seen what Canada rye does to the dogs we enjoy to hunt with. These seeds along with Virgina Rye kill your dog slow and painfully. As PF suporters I challenge you to go to your next meeting and bring this topic up and ask for a simple change in the mix to plant for cover excluding these seeds. It is a fact we know because of the dead dogs allready. People aware ask for it to be removed from the mix and it grows just as good. I am fully aware of the efforts put forth and the noble cause it is for but if we can't hunt it with our dogs is it worth hunting? The fact is it is a simple fix and we can bring it up at the chapter level to fix the problem. We have tried to call the upper levels and basicly got the your nuts spiel and we want proof. So we are doing that now but it is sad that it will take so much work from a small # of people to get through to them. I hope you all heed this warning and check into this problem because it will only get worse till we do somthing about it. At least all around MN it is what is used as cover crop and it needs to stop. The seeds are inhaled, ingested, inbeded in hair then skin and travel through the dog causing infection and a slow painfull death, the seeds inhaled or ingested simply travel through lungs and other vitals and cause slow painfull death. Afriend recently had 3 removed from a dog, the first surgery took one out just under the skin by the shoulder after seeing a lump cist. Then it healed from antibiotics when those wore off it festered again she then injected dye into the wound and used an ultrasound and was able to see the seed traveled from the shoulder over the spine, around the oppisite shoulder, back accross the spine, and down to the back of the rib cage. This was a mild case. Many others are sent to the U for a 5-13 thousand $ bill and are just not the same again. Many are missdiagnosed as a tumor and when they remove the infected area they miss the seed because it traveled. Useualy they put it on antibiotics and it gets better till they wear off and it will come back rather quickly. The sad stories just keep piling up and its time to change the planting practices now. I tell you to benifit you not me, I know what to look for and can avoid it. The part that bothers me is some public land is infected. Once this is realized as a mistake it will be more expensive to fix later then just simply not planting it to begin with. Again we are not nuts and only tell you this so you PF enthusiasts can do somthing about it , You are the voice. And if you love your dogs I sugest you take it to heart.
 
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I've been a member of PF in SD for more than 10 years and this is the first time I've heard of this problem. I have a lot of Canada Wild Rye in my CRP but haven't experienced any problems with any of the dogs that have hunted with us or with my dog.

Pheasants Forever doesn't force anyone to use Canada Wild Rye in any of the CRP seedings and it is the NRCS that has the final approval of seeding plans, not Pheasants Forever. Ultimately its the landowner who decides which seeding plan, among several that are approved to be used, that he will plant. I'm sure that very few landowners, and PF club members, are even aware a potential problem.
 
Yes Landman that is exactly right that is why essfta has been trying to edu as many people as we can, We understand it has not been done as an intention, but now we know what it can do so we are simply trying to get this info out and like you said most land owners don't know or don't even hunt in alot of cases so they don't care. If you look at the USDA distribution map you will see how wide spread it is and that is why we would like to get through to these people most of all. And I am glad you most of all of the folks on here are willing to look at this. I only hope you never have any trouble with your dogs. The Friend I talked about does not listen very well. He has been through it with 3 dogs now and a friend he hunts with lost one to the seed too. He has 80 acres by Montivideo that has Canada rye planted and just keeps putting dogs through it. I hunted it last year with him and I saw the stuff and carried my pup 300 yards back to the truck. He has a ton of birds but I will not hunt my dog there again.
 
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Basicly what I mean is We know PF members don't plant the fields or maybe make the decisions but maybe if enough of us bring it up maybe they will listen to the right people in these groups. No one is pointing fingures just trying to come up with a solution. And if you have heard the old saying " If you play with a snake long enough you will get bit" thats what many people think of Canada Rye.
 
Okay, checked out website. From what I can tell this relates of affecting Spaniel, are any other breeds affected?

"Over the past several years, the ESSFTA has become aware of a number of Springers that have fallen ill due to infections related to grass awns. These seeds can penetrate the dog’s body through the skin, or be aspirated or swallowed as the dog runs through cover with loose seeds. Once in the body, the seeds migrate, leaving a trail of the bacteria they carry in their wake. Diagnosis of a grass awn infection is complicated because oftentimes the dog will not show any specific symptoms until he or she is seriously ill. Many veterinarians are not familiar with this type of infection, and delays in diagnosis once the dog becomes symptomatic can be fatal. A number of very fine Spaniels have been lost."
 
It can happen to any dog. If you look at all the articiles you will see one with a shepard or somthing in it , Look at the photos of the dogs with there surgerys. It does not matter what the breed is A spaniel does not have a seed sucker on them that no other breeds do. We run in upland trials so they came accross this sooner as most of the trial folks train several times a week all year, hunt like everyone and trial as well, so they were in the fields more than anyone and are the first to see the trouble. I suggest people take time to read all the articles on there and just simply get the word out that we don't want these seeds in any mix....
A lab or a pointer or a cockapoo can get affected. If you hunt in a field with this stuff in it sooner or later you may have trouble with a dog.
I thought hard about starting this thread because I knew it could be taken wrong and create controversy and I really do not want to do that, but I know how many people on here have dogs and I now at least feel I can sleep at night knowing I informed people of the potential trouble and that is all I can really do. I wish the best for all of you and your dogs, If this helps one dog then it's worth it.
 
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So why can't other seeds cause the same problem? What about a thistle thorn or cockle bur thorn?
 
The certain seeds that cause the trouble have the awns on them they are like a porqupine qwill with the barbs that grab and pull the seed in one direction, you can feel them between your fingures. not all seeds have this on them.
 
FCSpringer said:
I thought hard about starting this thread because I knew it could be taken wrong and create controversy and I really do not want to do that, but I know how many people on here have dogs and I now at least feel I can sleep at night knowing I informed people of the potential trouble and that is all I can really do. I wish the best for all of you and your dogs, If this helps one dog then it's worth it.
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I can't imagine why anyone would take umbrage with the intent of this thread FC. Seems like good information whether it's heeded or not.
 
I am personaly not on the commitee but there has been some discution with heads of PF and some DNR offices not sure who. and they are requesting proof, so that is what is now taking place, problem is getting the word out and collecting data and evidence, this is where I am trying to help. We need people to keep the seeds from the opperations and submitt them to us for testing and ID there has been some allready but we need more. so if anyone has this done please save the seeds and pm me and I will give info on where to send the specimen.What would be realy nice is if a University would head up the testing and take on the project as well. Like a SDU or Uof M, it would be a very interesting study for them. We as dog owners just know what has been removed from our dogs and can send the samples in for ID but you can imagin how much headache this can be for an individual. So thats the wish to get a body with more resources to do a study on the issue.
 
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Unfortunatly, I have been bitten. I have no Idea where the dog got an awn from But my dog River had sugery this morning on her foot. The seed found it's way in the area behind the main pad and burrowed in as far as it could to the bone. I will be sending it in for ID, Even being aware of it and trying to avoid it I still got it. At least mine is somewhere that will just lay the dog up for a few weeks. But still over 300$ for surgery. A friend of mine has a crp field full of this stuff and hunts it all the time and has not had a issue yet but then I get one Avoiding it Go figure.
 
USDA Needs Your Info

FCSpringer said:
Well I see a ton of Pheasant's forever supporters here, So I will bring up the dangerous seed topic again. I support this group as well as any local USDA group building habitat, but I have seen what Canada rye does to the dogs we enjoy to hunt with. These seeds along with Virgina Rye kill your dog slow and painfully. As PF suporters I challenge you to go to your next meeting and bring this topic up and ask for a simple change in the mix to plant for cover excluding these seeds. It is a fact we know because of the dead dogs allready. People aware ask for it to be removed from the mix and it grows just as good. I am fully aware of the efforts put forth and the noble cause it is for but if we can't hunt it with our dogs is it worth hunting? The fact is it is a simple fix and we can bring it up at the chapter level to fix the problem. We have tried to call the upper levels and basicly got the your nuts spiel and we want proof. So we are doing that now but it is sad that it will take so much work from a small # of people to get through to them. I hope you all heed this warning and check into this problem because it will only get worse till we do somthing about it. At least all around MN it is what is used as cover crop and it needs to stop. The seeds are inhaled, ingested, inbeded in hair then skin and travel through the dog causing infection and a slow painfull death, the seeds inhaled or ingested simply travel through lungs and other vitals and cause slow painfull death. Afriend recently had 3 removed from a dog, the first surgery took one out just under the skin by the shoulder after seeing a lump cist. Then it healed from antibiotics when those wore off it festered again she then injected dye into the wound and used an ultrasound and was able to see the seed traveled from the shoulder over the spine, around the oppisite shoulder, back accross the spine, and down to the back of the rib cage. This was a mild case. Many others are sent to the U for a 5-13 thousand $ bill and are just not the same again. Many are missdiagnosed as a tumor and when they remove the infected area they miss the seed because it traveled. Useualy they put it on antibiotics and it gets better till they wear off and it will come back rather quickly. The sad stories just keep piling up and its time to change the planting practices now. I tell you to benifit you not me, I know what to look for and can avoid it. The part that bothers me is some public land is infected. Once this is realized as a mistake it will be more expensive to fix later then just simply not planting it to begin with. Again we are not nuts and only tell you this so you PF enthusiasts can do somthing about it , You are the voice. And if you love your dogs I sugest you take it to heart.
Click to expand...

Since the USDA regulates CRP, that organization needs to be informed of the problem. I assume that your organization has made contact? Thanks for the info and for your efforts in this area.
 
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